Was Christ with God before He came to the earth?
WAS CHRIST WITH GOD BEFORE HE CAME TO THE EARTH????
wants to rely on John 1 so let's take a closer look at it.
John 1:1,2 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
1 teaches the concept of God manifest in flesh, which was recorded later
on in I Timothy 3:16. Jesus wasn't another person of the Godhead. He was
literally, biblically defined as, God Himself manifested in the flesh. God
is an invisible Spirit, without flesh and bones. Yet He clothed Himself in
the flesh, termed "The Son" or "The Son of God".
Word was not a separate person or a separate god any more than a man's
word is a separate person from him.
the beginning was the Word. Looking at that word in the Greek we find the
word used is Logos. Vine defines the word logos as: (I) denotes the
expression of thought-not the mere name of an object; (a) as embodying a
conception or idea.
The Word was not a person but
the Word was the thought, plan, or mind of God. The Word was with God in
the beginning and actually was God Himself (John 1:1). The Incarnation
existed in the mind of God before the world began. Indeed, in the mind of
God the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world (I Peter
1:19-20; Revelation 13:8).
quotes that are not scripture are from David
Bernard and his book The
Oneness of God.
Greek usage, logos can mean the expression or plan as it exists in the
mind of the proclaimer - as a play in the mind of a playwright - or it can
mean the thought as uttered or otherwise physically expressed - as a play
that is enacted on stage. John 1 says the Logos existed in the mind of God
from the beginning of time. When the fulness of time was come, God put
that plan in action. He put flesh on that plan in the form of the man
Jesus Christ. The Logos is God expressed. As John Miller says, the Logos
is "God uttering Himself." In fact, TAB translates the last
phrase of John 1:1 as, "The Word was God Himself." Flanders and
Cresson say, "The Word was God's means of self disclosure." This
thought is further brought out by verse 14, which says the incarnated Word
had the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, and by verse 18,
which says that the Son has declared the Father.
In Greek philosophy, the Logos came to mean reason or wisdom as the controlling principle of the universe. In John's day, some Greek philosophers and Jewish theologians influenced by Greek thought (especially the Jewish thinker, Philo of Alexandria) regarded the Logos as an inferior, secondary deity or as an emanation from God in time. Some Christian heresies, including an emerging form of Gnosticism, were already incorporating these theories into their doctrines, and therefore relegating Jesus to an inferior role. John deliberately used their own terminology to refute these doctrines and to declare the truth. The Word was not inferior to God; it was God (John 1:1). The Word did not emanate from God over a period of time; it was with God in the beginning (John 1:1-2). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was none other than the Word, or God, revealed in flesh. Note also that the Greek word pros, translated "with" in verse 1, is the same word translated "pertaining to" in Hebrews 2:17 and 5:1. John 1:1 could include in its meanings, therefore, the following: "The Word pertained to God and the Word was God," or, "The Word belonged to God and was God."
The Jews understood when
Jesus spoke to them that He was not claiming to be another god. They knew
He was not claiming to be a 2nd person of God. They knew and understood He
was claiming to be God.
John 8:25-27 - Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
The Jews did not understand
that He was saying He was the Father. But, at other times, they understood
clearly that He was claiming to be God.
John 5:17,18 - But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Making that statement, to a
Jew in that time, was basically telling them that I am God your Father.
Yet they did not understand how God could manifest in the flesh. They
suffered for it and missed the blessing.
8:56-69 - Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it,
and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years
old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I
say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast
at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through
the midst of them, and so passed by.
He spoke to them as God would saying your father Abraham rejoiced to see
my day. They wanted to stone Him because they considered that what He
was saying was blaspheming against God. By saying He was before Abraham
and that He was "I am" (Ex. 3:14), He was saying He was God.
Jesus finally in John 10 says it explicitly.
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up
stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I
shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The
Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for
blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Jesus forgave a palsied man of His sins, the Jews thought He had
blasphemed because they knew that only God could forgive sin (Isaiah
43:25). Jesus, knowing their thoughts, healed the man; thereby showing His
divine power and proving His deity (Luke 5:20-26). The Jews were right in
believing that there was one God, in believing that only God could forgive
sin, and in understanding that Jesus claimed to be the one God (the Father
and Jehovah). They were wrong only because they refused to believe Jesus'
It is amazing that some people today not only reject the Lord's assertion of His true identity, but even fail to realize what He did assert. Even the Jewish opponents of Jesus realized that Jesus claimed to be God, the Father, and Jehovah, but some today cannot see what the Scriptures so plainly declare.
anything, I hope these scriptures provoke you to search the truth in the
face of Jesus and verify if the things well-meaning men have shared unto
you be true.
Last Edited: 06/18/2011